I'm Craig and I work for the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service in New Mexico. The USFWS is an agency in the federal government in the Department of the Interior. The USFWS actually started as the U.S. Fish Commission in 1871, created by President Grant, and operated under the Smithsonian Institution. You may have heard about, or even visited the Smithsonian in Washington, DC. My agency is the oldest conservation agency in the country. The Fish Commission was created to have scientists examine why the numbers of food fishes had declined along the Atlantic Coast, its tributary rivers, and in the Great Lakes, and to prescribe remedies to fix things.
The Fish Commission soon added hatcheries as fishery management tool in 1872. The Fish Commission became the Bureau of Fisheries in 1903, and then our named changed in 1939, to what we are called today. And this is interesting: we still have pretty much the same duties we did nearly 142 years ago. But our charges have broadened working across the country dealing with all sorts of fishes: fishes people like to catch, fished used for food, and those imperiled, too. But we also conserve plants, salamanders, and mussels. We have scientists working from Alaska to Florida, Maine to California. We operate three hatcheries in Arkansas: Greers Ferry National Fish Hatchery; Mammoth Spring National Fish Hatchery; and Norfork National Fish Hatchery. You should consider visiting.
I took an interest in fish through angling when I was about 12 or 13 years old, and decided to work in conservation as a teenager. I went to college and studied fish biology. My job with the USFWS as a fish biologist is somewhat unusual. Since I also have a college degree in English, I work as a writer and an editor, writing stories about fisheries conservation for magazines and websites. My work is very rewarding, and encourage you to follow your passion, be it an interest in nature, engineering, or whatever your desires may be.
Thanks to Mrs. Combs for this invitation to write to you. I look forward to your questions.
Do park rangers get a lot of free time ?
Jackson, how could you rephrase your question a little bit? Since Mr. Springer is not a park ranger, he might not be able to answer it directly.
Hello, Jackson. Park Rangers usually work 40 hours per week. That is a standard work schedule for most any profession or job in the United States. Most folks were 8 am to 5 pm, or something close to that. But for park rangers, that does vary, and with some significance. Some work all night, some work a compressed schedule of perhaps 10 days at work, and four days off. It varies. So, to answer your question a little more directly, no, there's not necessarily free time that comes with being a park ranger, but the place where one works as a ranger may give that person a sense of not really working. Thanks, Craig
Hi!!! My name is hannah and I am studying to be a Chemical Engineer and I was wandering if in all your years of studying fish species have you ever encountered a chemical that has affected the fish you have studied ?
Hello, Hannah. Good question. I have not encountered a chemical that affected fish in the way I think that you pose the question. I sense that you are wondering if I have studied fishes that were harmed by chemicals. That answer is no. I did participate in a study for fishes in the Rio Grande from southern Colorado where the river starts, down toward its mouth in south Texas, though the last station that I worked at collecting fish was in southern New Mexico. Scientists collected tissues from the fishes to look for contaminates. My part in the work was simply to catch and dissect the fish. I have used formulated chemicals used in fish conservation, such as MS222 which is used to make fish sleepy some that they can be easily handled, causing less stress to them, so that they are better able to survive when released back into the wild. It's sort of like what you might experience when a person has surgery. Formalin is another chemical used to preserve dead fish in a museum or laboratory. Some fish caught decades ago have proved useful to historians and scientists researching fish in the present-day. Chemicals have their uses in conservation, and chemical engineers make that happen. Thanks, Craig
Kids, here's a book that you might find interesting, "The Fishes of Arkansas." The maps are interesting. If you locate a stream or lake that you have visited, and if a black dot appears on your water, that means the fish associated with that map has been found in that water. It may surprise you what swims nearby. Take a look at the alligator gar for example. That is the second-largest freshwater fish in North America, reaching 13 feet long and 300 pounds! The biggest and oldest alligator gar in the wild right now were probably hatched in the 1950s. And they swim near where you live. How cool is that?
Hello! My name is jackson needham. I was wondering if you knew any inventors.The question i would ask you is,do some inventions hurt the enviroment. Do the inventions that help the enviroment outweigh the inventions that hurt it?
Jackson, how about if we phrase your question to find out if there are any inventions that hurt (or help) fish or their environment? For example: What are some significant inventions that impact - positively or negatively - fish species that you have worked with?
Hi Jackson, actually, I do know an inventor. A man who I went to college with invented and patented an apparatus that you attach to the lower unit of an outboard boat motor. Think of it as a pitchfork that's attached to the area where a propeller spins, What would happen if a fish biologist was in a boat, and it skated over low water and the prop hit rocks. It would make for a bad day at work, But the "pitchfork" takes the damage and saves the prop. Does that help fish directly? No. But it makes work from a boat go smoother.
I might be a climate change biologist when I grow up and I have a Question for you. What percentageof my job is green?
Bennett, make sure you consider your audience when you ask a question. I bet Mr. Springer would be more interested in and would be better qualified to answer questions like this: How does climate change impact fish biology? Have you ever seen a direct impact of climate change on fish you have studied?
Hi Bennett. Climate change could do this: it could change fish habitat. Fishes have certain limits in water temperature that can be tolerated before they become infirm. Trouts, for example, thrive in cold water, and that's why you find them naturally living in cold mountain streams in the western U.S. (You also find trout in Arkansas in the waters below big dams, like on the White River because the dam is releasing cold water at the bottom of the lake). Basses, like spotted bass and largemouth bass do well in farm ponds and lakes in Arkansas and tolerate warmer water than the trout. Fish biologists deal in habitat changes as a matter of course. When I worked on a masters degree in fisheries science, I did mathematical modeling or how the amount of fish habitat changed with varying levels of stream flow. I did a lot of looking at fish in the river, measuring the river and it flow, and then a lot of time at desk computing changes in habitat. While fish biologist study fish, I had to be adept in math, fluid dynamics or hydrology, as well as know something about the biology of the fish I studied. While I have not seen directly the affects of climate change on a fish or fish population, biologists that model fish habitat like I describe above, can overtime, detect such changes.
Hi, im Braeden my career is an Material Engineer. The people who do this job take materials like plastic and make them better for the enviroment. My question is that in your job do you have any things or materials you use that have been modified to be better for the enviroment.
Good questions, Braeden!
Braeden, I have seen materials used to create fish habitat. I can't recall specific names or brands at present, but there are manufacturers that take materials and recycle or make composites into structures that are placed underwater. Think of it as a "bass bungalow." They are like artificial underwater trees. The structures attract algae and snails and then small fishes, and fishes that prey on those fishes, and then bigger fishes yet, and then maybe an angler or a commercial fisherman that catches fish for the marketplace, that is fish that find their way onto a store freezer or restaurant menu.
Hi! My career is an astronaut. I know you are not one, but perhaps I can take your opinion in something small. If you were an astronaut, would you consider it an environmental career? Thanks for your paticipation! I really appreciate it!
Habiba, I often wonder if people are aware of how the work astronauts do and have done have affected their careers. Take, for example, materials developed for use in space that we now use in everyday life. I wonder if any space missions have ever been conducted to study of fish biology, fish migration, or anything else that is relevant to the USFWS.
Habiba, that sort of career would be out of this world! I actually know a man, a fish biologist, who worked on the Apollo missions, as, get this, a fish biologist. No, there were no fishes on the moon, and he didn't got to the moon. But helped out. He studied moon rocks brought back to Planet Earth so as to determine their potential effects on fish. What an assignment that must have been. His specialty was fish health, like a vet for fish, though he was not a veterinarian. Space technology has its uses in fisheries conservation. We can use radios implanted in large fishes that give off signals followed by GPS satellited orbiting earth. See what I said in another post about MS222, and chemicals. You see, there's an intersection here between chemical engineers, materials engineers, aerospace technology, and fisheries science.
Hi! My career is tropical ecology, and my question is why do you conserve fish, and why should you do it? My career relates to yours, because I save animals, and you save fish. Thanks!
Hello, Anna. The "why" questions are the most difficult to answer. A colleague of mine in Michigan recently wrote an essay on that very question in a professional society journal. She likened it to what she called "the four Fs." Food, Finance, Fun, Function. Fish feed us. Fish are fun to watch and fun to outwit fishing. Fish are important to the economy (finance). And, fish have a function in the environment. I remember with great clarity witnessing fish perform their functions in a tiny stream, as I stood in the shadow of a sycamore tree. A northern hogsucker (yes, that's a real name of a really cool fish; look it up), cruised in shallow swift-flowing water, and didn't wash down stream because its head is naturally concave--that is, it has a small dent on its head that fast water pushes on, pressing the fish to the stream bottom. As the hogsucker cruised the rocky bottom, it was grazing on rocks, sucking algae off of them. Now crayfish, or crawdads as you might call them, hide during the day in the crevices of rocks because they don't like sunlight. This hogsucker caused a crayfish to dislodge and get up in the water. A smallmouth bass was slightly downstream, and guess what smallmouth bass like to eat? Crayfish. You see, these three animals together are part of a much larger network of co-existence, and not necessarily a peaceful one, as I witnessed the bass take advantage of the existence and feeding habits of the hogsucker to get its food, a crayfifsh. Fish have their function, a niche they occupy in nature.
Hi I'm Jackson B I'm doing a prodject. I'm a park ranger,do you know any park rangers? If so could ask them if they get a lot of free time? I want a job where I can be with my family, and also get game time in. most jobs only give time to do one. Thank you for your cooparation in my prodject.
Jackson, I think I answered your question earlier. Family is so very important. Hold the reins on the game time, if it's video games you're talking about, and try to do things not requiring electricity -- outdoors! It does a body good.
Hey its me Jackson N.The one green career I would enjoy is inventing.Do you use green inventions at your job daily.What kind of inventions do you use?Are some inventions bad for the enviroment?If there are,then what are they?
do you know any climate change biologists. If you do can you ask them my question.
Dear Mr.Springer my name is Carter Baldwin I would like to know what made you want to be involved in a green career?
Hi Carter, as I mentioned to Anna, the "why" questions are the most difficult to answer. For me, the work I do is a calling. In Latin, it's vocare, a voice, which is very similar to vocation--someone's job. My desire to work in conservation was like a mission, not just a job to earn a check. In fact, I enjoy doing what I do so much, that often it doesn't feel like work. No matter what you do in life, you want that sort of vocation--one that you enjoy doing. I found fish fascinating as a youngster by fishing, and further study about them. Like the story told to Anna about the hogsucker, I remember seining up a small fish in a creek called a greenside darter, and marveling at the profuse colors. The little fish was like a fiesta with fins: neon orange and green popped like it was a painting. The marvel of it all gave a teenager a sense that the fishes and myself were part of something larger, more important and worthy of attention. You might say it was a spiritual experiences that got me interested in conservation.
Take a look at a greenside darter. You can find fish like this in small Arkansas streams. There's a lot of color packed in this little fish that reaches about six inches, tops!
Thank you for your answer. It must be wonderful to work in a field you are so passionate about. I hope to find my calling.
You're welcome, Carter. You will find a calling. Stay glad, stay active, and keep reading books. Craig
Hi I am William Parker have you always wanted to be a fisheries biologest since you were young.
Hello, William. Yes, my interest in conservation started at a very young age, and became refined or centered on fish ecology into my teens and early period in college. The neat thing is that I still have the liking for fisheries conservation though I am not so young anymore.
Hi! I am Conrad Jarvis And I am studying being a soil scientist. How would the soil in a riverbed affect the fish in the river?
Hello Conrad, that is a great question. Now go get your dictionary, please. Look up the pre-fixes "auto" and "allo". The nutrients in a stream that feeds the algae that feed the bugs that feed the fish that feed the herons and angler comes from allochthonous production. Big word: it means that what goes on OUTSIDE the stream in the watershed goes into the stream. The nutrients in a stream come from outside the stream. Put this way, what happens on the fields and hills where the rain and springs eventually drain into a stream, becomes a part of the stream. I kind of look at it this way: a stream is a liquified watershed. Soil in a stream bottom can be a good thing or a bad thing, depending on the species of fish that live in it. Here's a situation where it can be bad. In Arkansas, there are several species of sunfishes that include names you may have heard of -- bluegill, longear, rock bass, smallmouth bass -- every one of those species have a curious nesting habitat that requires a rocky stream bottom. The males dig out a saucer shaped nest in gravel and the eggs are deposited there and the male fish stands guard over them. Water has oxygen in it and fish eggs remarkably allow water to flow through them and the oxygen-rich water to give what fish need to "breathe" so to speak. What do you think would happen if a lot of soil from farm fields washed into a stream when those fish are nesting? The eggs could suffocate. So, you see, what happens outside of a stream has an influence inside the stream. Let's not forget the other prefix, "auto." Lakes derive their nutrients from autochthonous production. See if you can figure out how that is different than allochthonous production. Craig
Hi, I'm Molly and I am studying to be a Zoologist. Since you have a strong interest in fish, do fish have different behavior when they are with their own species than a different species of fish?
Molly, that is a great question. Each species of fish has its own way of making a living, behaving differently than each other and differently as they age and mature. Some fish species school is large groups, some in small groups, and some are very singular or solitary in their behavior. Fish have a natural range, which is to say that, for example, the Ozark bass, as you might be able to tell from its name, lives in streams in the Ozarks of northern Arkansas and southern Missouri. The fish from over thousands of years of naturally co-existing with other fishes, like say, smallmouth bass and blacknose dace, has come to innately "know" or recognize that a dace (a small minnow) is not a threat, but food, and that a smallmouth bass is a predator and a threat. I sort of liken it to me naturally knowing when I was a small child that a growling dog bearing its teeth at me was a threat without having to be told: it was an innate behavior in me. I am not saying that I know what an Ozark bass thinks, but it's a supposition on my part that the fish has in its very makeup a way of naturally knowing where it falls in the order of nature. But let's think about what would happen when a fish that the Ozark bass had no previous experience with over that same previous long span of time, and that new species of fish where purposely or accidentally placed in Ozark bass streams. Would the Ozark bass know that this new fish it had never seen before or its ancestors had no experience with "know" that it is a potential predator? While this scenerio with the Ozark bass is contrived, similar things have happened and the native fish, the Ozark bass in this case, has suffered. In the western United States, brown trout from Europe were stocked in waters that already contained native trouts that were here naturally, and the native trout could no compete with the brown trout, and today, many of those native trouts are found only in isolated waters, greatly diminished from their former natural range. The less to learn here related to your question is that fish biologists and zoologists must fully understand that behavior and habitat needs of all fishes, and that stocking non-native fish where a native fish exists is not always advisable. Craig
Molly, you can learn about the Ozark bass here. Its scientific name, "constanellus" came about from a fish biologist who thought the spotting pattern on the fish's sides looked like the constellations.
Hi,I chose a diver for my project.A website stated that divers use explosives to destroy bridges and other water related structures.considering tour fish knowledge,do you think that the explosions will hurt the fish?
Hi Caroline, I have been diving before, in Mexico, in the Sea of Cortez and had hammerhead sharks swim overhead -- at a safe distance. I also snorkled to conduct research on fish and did it at various times of day, even very late at night, to determine how a species of fish used various parts of the river. It was astounding to learn how changes in amount of light influenced the fish's behavior. But you asked about explosives. Yes, the sound of explosives could cause fish to be temporarily stunned, and if close enough to the explosion, killed. Sound travels through water, but not as easily as it does through air. And you have probably heard some really loud noises so much so that it made you uncomfortable. Well, I don't know this for sure, but I imagine that fish might feel a sense of discomfort with very loud noises, but I would not mistake that as "pain" as you and I know it as human beings. Our brains are much more complex and I'm going off memory here (speaking of brains), but I think it's the cerebral cortex where "pain" is processed that is lacking in fin fish. I hope this answers your question. Qualified divers would probably work in a variety of fields.
Hi my name is Kevin Estrtada and and I want to be a hydrologist. Hydrologists could pridict if there is going to be a drout and stuff like that my question is do you have any personal knoledge about how a hydrologist would help you with your job and how is this important?
Hi Kevin, I have worked with hydrologists and when I was in college I had to take a few hydrology courses, including one called Fluid Dynamics, which taught me to understand the nature of how water (and other liquids) flow. Do you know that fluid dynamics comes into play in designing things like a milk carton? You want the fluid to pour out and not course down the side of the carton, so knowing how fluids behave is important in more aspects than you might think. My experience in hydrology and fluid dynamics has come about in researching how fish use their habitats. I had to predict the amount of habitat that would be available at different levels of flow in a river. That meant understanding how, for example, the roughness of a river bottom would affect the speed at which the water flowed. A smooth river bottom allowed water to move faster, while a rough, bouldery bottom would slow water down. And if you were a fish living in a river where water is always coming at you and you had to swim against it, what sort of water flow would you use less energy? See what I told Conrad about about how what happens outside a stream influences what happens in it. It makes me think of this related to your question; you may have seen a large tree that has fallen into a stream, and you might think it looks unsightly. To a fish biologist, it is a beautiful thing. Trees in streams can provide habitat by slowing down the water, and giving a place for fish to hide, too. Hydrology helps us understand how streams behave and how fish might respond to flows. I encourage to become a hydrologist. Make sure you do well in math. Craig
hello Mr.Springer! My name is Cole Baldwin and I am studing wildlife biologist I wanted to know if you provide fish for the lakes and ponds?
Cole, my agency, the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service produces fish at 70 national fish hatcheries across the country. Close to where you live, there are three of them and I encourage you to visit. They are Mammoth Spring, Greers Ferry, and Norfolk National Fish Hatcheries. All three of them raise trout for stocking in the streams below dams. Mammoth Spring National Fish Hatchery in the past had been doing research on the Ozark Hellbender. Odd name for an animal, isn't it? The hellbender is a salmander that gets quite big. Check it out. National Fish Hatcheries do stock fish,but work with more that just fish.
Hi!!! I am Mary Mac Harkins!!! I am studying a hydrologist. What they basically do is help clean water and help with outdoorsy problems.My job is kinda like yours!!! I was wondering of all your years working with the U.S. fish and wildlife service did you ever work with a hdrologist?Or someone who became a hydrologist later on?
Hello, Mary. Your classmate, Kevin, has a very similar interest in becoming a hydrologist. Take note in what I said to him. I have worked with hydrologists, and studied hydrology a little bit myself.
For a fish biologist, hydrology is important in understanding the timing and extent of stream flows. That is, knowing when and why streams flow high or flow low, and the things that can happen that would change that timing or level of flow. Hydrologists and fish biologists both have to know a little bit about forestry. Think of this: if you have a hillside that has a good mix of trees and grass, the rain that lands on it is going to behave differently that it would if it were simply a hillside of grass. Rainfall that flows overland or soaks into the ground will be different with trees vs. grass. As a consequence, the stream flow will be different, too, both in how much water gets to the stream and when it gets there.
Here's something else hydrologists and fish biologists need to know: limnology. It's a curious word: limn; it means to ornament a piece of writing with choice words so that what you are communicating becomes more vivid. But limnology is the study of the biological, chemical and physical properties of water. And I have to say that if a hydrologist has studied limnology, you would know in great detail all those thing that affect water that affect fish and affect people.
And speaking of people, I know a lady from Wilmot Arkansas who was a schoolgirl just like you, and she went on to college and eventually got a Ph.D. in limnology. That lady, Dr. Mamie Parker became the assistant director of the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service, and had done such outstanding things for fish conservation that she was honored by Governor Mike Huckabee a few years ago. You can read about her here: http://www.fws.gov/offices/mamieparkerbioFISH.htm
And you too can do great things, and like I said to Kevin, if you want to become a hydrologist, do well in math. Craig
hi my name is miles and i was just wandering about how many die in a year . I am doing a project on overpopulation in fish.
Miles, Nature is a tough place. I can't give you specific numbers. But, simply put, there's only so much food available to fish and wildlife that if there are more mouths to feed than there is food to put in them, the animals will become malnourished and become less immune to disease or not strong enough to avoid predators and will perish. Fish naturally die, however, even without being overpopulated. You might find this curious. Smallmouth bass might lay up to 12,000 eggs in spring. Do all of them grow up to be adult fish? Not even close! One or two of those eggs will make it through all the life stages to maturity at about age three.
hey craig this is Zac. Sorry but I have changed my topic so just ignore my first question. Now I am studying a park ranger what are your experiencis with a park ranger? Have you ever been one?
Zac, I worked as a park ranger for a summer when I was 19 years old. I worked at North Cascades National Park in Washington state. I spent a fair amount of time meeting with park visitors and offering information for fishing, mountain climbing, and camping. But I also would patrol the backcountry on foot with a backpack and sleeping bag to ensure that visitors were following the rules in the wilderness. It was fun job, one of those jobs that you might experience one day and ask yourself, "am I really getting paid to do this?" No matter what you choose to do for a living, you want your work to be like that--a calling, and something that you really enjoy. The more you enjoy you labors, the better you will be at it, no matter what it is, and that is where you will find joy and fulfillment.
Hi Mr.Springer my name is Graci. My career is an aquarist they r like zookerpers for under water animals. Have you ever interfearerd with an aquarist or heard of one if you have how is your career like this career.
Hi Graci, taking care of fish, or mussels, bugs and even plants in captivity is very important work in conservation. Organisms are studied in captivity to learn what they need in the way of habit and medicine. The U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service, which I work for, has much to do with keeping fish habitats connected. Some dams block fish from moving upstream, but troughs that pass water around the dam can be engineered in such a way that allows fish to swim through it (without being washed down) and over a dam. These things are called "fishways" and sometimes called "fish ladders." But how do hydrologists (something some of your classmates are interested in doing) design fishways for different kinds and sizes of fish? They study their swimming ability in captivity -- think of a large aquarium with flowing water, or even better, a treadmill for fish. A biologist must know how to care for the captive fish to derive the knowledge of speed of flowing water fish can swim against. Craig
Hi! my name is Lilly Newton and I am studying the life of a marine biologist.So far, I know that a marine biologist studies underwater animals. I am wondering if you do a little bit of things that a marine biologist would do.
Hi Lilly, a marine biologist is typically a biologist who studies the life of animals in the oceans in salt water. All of my studies in college and on my job have been with fishes in freshwater in lakes and streams. The work I have done and that of a marine biologist are very similar in that we used the same tools, the same techniques, and concepts in biology and so forth. Marine biologists are more likely to work on large ships at sea, and use very large nets to collect and examine fishes. Marine biologists work a lot in the realm of studying food fishes, that is, the fish you find at the market or in a restaurant. Marine biologists monitor fish populations to ensure that not too many of them are harvested at any given time to make sure that the number of fish in the population remains high enough so they they will continue to be available for food. Craig
hello this is pierce and the science job im learning is a bioligst and was woundering if there is a problem with the fish or animals in a lake would a bioligst come studing the water with you because when the habiat is getting were the fish and animals where becoming extinct. Would they come and test the water with you and your team.
Hi Pierce, Biologists would test the water. For one, they would look at the water temperature over a period of time to learn if the temperature is within the range of temperatures that fish can endure. Various species of fish have different tolerances or preferences for water temperature. For example, in Arkansas you would find largemouth bass in warm water of farm ponds. But trout which favors cold water could never live in the same warm pond. You'll find them in the cold waters flowing out from dams on the White River for example.
There is more to fish habitat that just water. Fish need a place to "hang out" so to speak. That farm pond largemouth bass I mentioned, that fish would need underwater weeds to hide in from predators like herons when it is small, and as it gets bigger, the weeds are a place to hide in ambush to catch unsuspecting frogs and minnows and small sunfishes. To understand fish habitat, and changes in the number of fishes in a body of water, biologist would examine a great many things. Fisheries science is a lot like studying history. To understand the current trends or changes in present conditions, you have to understand what has happened in the past. That is why biologists collect data over a long period of time.
I have a book to recommend: The Wild Season. Allan Eckert wrote about a pond and a bass in the month of May and it is a wonderful read. I think you and your fellow students would enjoy it.
Hi Craig!! My name is Anna and I am studying vetinarians for my project and I was reading your biography and saw that you worked with wildlife and fish and I was wondering if you have ever worked with a vetrinarian or done some things a vetrinarian would do? Thanks, Anna
I know someone else who wants to be a vet, my older daughter. My youngest daughter wants to be a mermaid but all those jobs are already taken!
I do work with veterinarians. In fact, my agency has five Fish Health Centers across the country and sixth office that does research on fish medicine to ensure that it is safe and effective to use, both for the fish and for people.
Our Fish Health Centers test fish for disease in hatcheries and in the wild and the prescribe remedies in hatchery situations. The information they get from populations in the wild helps biologist understand what diseases are known to exist and to manage the fish populations accordingly. You can learn more on the link below. There you will find a map that will show you what lakes and streams have been studied near Little Rock.
Mr. springer you have helped me so much and i will look into the book.
P.S. i might be a biologist someday it sounds fun
Pierce, glad to help.
I am so enthused about the book that I pulled it off my shelf and started reading it again.
Gwendolynn Millen Combs